Dh problems

[Sparrow]

hi all,

im not entirely sure this is the right thread to post this in. but here goes...


im having husband troubles. i feel like his expectations for me are way too high. he has a job that takes him outside of town for anywhere from 2 to 5 days per week. he originally took a month off when we were doing intensive treatment on dd3. but 3 weeks ago, he went back to work. since then, i am home all day with both kids, a 3 year old and a 9 month old. we have been fighting alot this past week about expectations. he feels that i should be able to take care of both kids, have a perfectly clean house, and have all meals cooked, and all done flawlessly. i feel that is impossible! the house is usually not pristine. all the "systems" are not usually used when he is gone, such as laundry sorted into wash temperature, and meal organization. things like that. we usually have meals based on what i decide to take out of the freezer, and i do laundry according to how much time i have to spare.  the house generally has small piles of d3´s drawings and sweetpeas toys. but it is not DIRTY by any means. then Dh comes home and picks at me about crooked flower pots, or unfolded laundry, orbooks left out. this morning he came to me about HIS pen being left out, not beside his briefcase. and it turned into a huge fight. ive had it with this constant nagging. i cant do everything on time, when it is SUPPOSED to happen, by myself, with two kids. and i dont feel tat i should have to.

any ideas? i think we are both just stressed to the breaking point, and Dh doesnt really have any idea how hard it is to parent a radish and a baby at the same time, alone. he hasnt had to do it. and the stress of it is getting to both of us. i love him, and realize that he wants be home more, but we need an income also. and he feels guilty that he has to be gone so much. and i feel overwhelmed by everything. and i fear that our marriage is sufferring because of it.

do any of you have any advice on how to handle this daily life and get everything done that needs to be done?

[Geertje]

Sparrow
I don't know if I can be of any help, but what is the background of DH, was is mother having a spotless house? or was it the opposite?
Is it possible for you to keep a diary what you all have to do, so he can have a insight.
If he is a day at home try that he can take it over, so he experience how it is to have take care over two young children (my goodness, at 7 pm I was totaly worn out when ds was 2, and I had only one).
Maybe you can let dd help with folding the laundry, cleaning up toys(I used a alarmclock and made a game from it, 1 towel 1 minuut etc. and give a reward)
I remember that my parents told me that when I was a baby I used to throw all my toys around and when my father came home for lunch, he had to clean it up!!
Maybe it's a idea to get some help from a neighbourgirl for certain task??
Take care

[karleen]

Any parent of a young child has to determine what is most important in the grand scheme of things.  You have 2 young ones, and add on top of that the intense therapy that you are going through right now.  I don't "hear" this in your post, but just in case I will say be kind to yourself.  Don't put unreasonable expectations on yourself.  As I said, I don't "hear" that from you, but just in case....

You are right to prioritize the 'must do' over over the 'need to do', and that over the 'would be nice'.  Now the harder part is getting dh to understand it.  Geertje's basic idea of having dh take over some of it is a good one.  Will he buy into that?  Could the 2 of you have a frank discussion of what needs to be done, and give him the choice of what chores are totally his responsibility?  If he travels alot, it probably couldn't be anything that must be done daily.  Maybe some of the weekly stuff, like some cleaning, shopping, laundry, etc.

And then, for the days he is home, maybe he could be completely responsible for bedtime routine, or kitchen cleanup, or picking up the playroom with dd, or something like that.  Seems that the more he is immersed in being in charge of doing it, not just helping you, the more he will come to understand what is really necessary.

I know this can be a very touchy thing, depending on dh's opinions of how a household should be managed and run.  So be sure to keep that in mind as you try to sort through this.  This might be stating the obvious, but approach this as the 2 of you solving a problem together.  Of course, I don't know your dh, so you are the best judge of his personality and how it is coming into this.  Is he a 'I work hard all day now I just want to relax' or a 'nothing is ever good enough' or a 'I'm willing to help but don't tell me how to do it' or a 'I will do whatever you want you just have to tell me what it is' or a ....  I'm sure there are a lot more types of personalities that could be listed.

Anyway, take care, and tread lightly with this.  Think through what you would like to say, have a good discussion at a time when stress levels are as low as possible (I know, when is that?) and not when someone is angry, and hopefully you will be able to get through to him.
((((((()))))))

[markie]

Hi Sparrow

I like the idea of documenting and logging your time (for a few days at least)

Also like the idea of working to get hubby here onto the board so he gets a feel for what
the dear darlin is like at times.

Our hearts go out to you...

and what you need to do at some point is get dh to work at /in therapy WITH you
(if you can do a once a month marriage (you two only) session , it might be good.

Bottom line is he needs to be made aware (slow, and easy) the # of stresses you are under.

Good luck...

[Don M]

Hi Sparrow;
   Your dh was good enough to stay home and work with you through that first critical month, and I am sure that between you he saw lots of the really major issues that were involved.  For that he should get a medal, because many families are unable to get both parents that completely focused for that long.

   His need to return to work and your dd3 seeming to get somewhat better, combined with his not being "in the middle" many hours every day may have left him feeling like "the battle's over, we won, so life should go back to normal".

   His being away and then appearing sometimes, probably also means that the times "Daddy's home" are more good than bad behaviors.  Please don't take it personally, but dd3 knows the two of you together are strong enough to keep her in control so she doesn't need to test that limit as much.  The exact opposite is true when one MOM has both dd3 and ds9mo and the baby is screaming.  That is likely to be a good time for dd3 to test your ability to see out the back of your head and hear around corners.

   Please ask dh if this is in fact what he is beginning to feel, and remind him that things really are better, but there is still most of a year long program of therapy planned.  If you can get him to remember why it took TWO of you just to get to the end of each day, he will be more able to understand why ONE person is having trouble coping with everything and still be an efficient housewife.

  Of course, he could just trade with you and find out from being up close and personal with the daily issues.  I am sure you would come back on weekends and help with the housework(?)

[DianeM2]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((SPARROW)))))))))))))))))))))

I always thought some of this is kind of normal in the first years of marriage.  It takes working it out together and picking your battles, learning the others faults and shortcomings.

BUT...You have a 9 Mo old and a RAD!!  You can't possibly do all the things in your house to keep it looking like Martha Stewart lives there!  A couple of things come to mind.  Remember all my suggestions and questions are gently said and some are based on what I have seen others struggle with in dealing with their husbands.

1.  How did you start out your relationship/marriage?  Did you "wait on him"?  I know as a young bride I kind of did this.  Then I would get exasperated when he would come to me expecting me to find this or that for him.  If you did, maybe he has learned to expect that.  Your comment about HIS pen being in the wrong place made me think of this.

2.  How did he help out when he was at home for that month?  Did he take turns doing dishes, straightening things, helping with kids?  I like the question Geertje asked about what his mother is like.  Is it the culture over there as far as what the husband expects from the wife?

3.  Maybe it's his guilt.  I have a BIL who does this.  When he is feeling stressed or overwhelmed he starts to pick at my SIL.  (They have 9 kids and she can't possibly keep a Martha Stewart house either!)  When she complains about him, we stop and take a breath and analyze him (poor guy) to see what his "real problem" is.  Maybe your hubby's "real problem" is that he can't be home as much as we wants.

4.  CROOKED FLOWER POTS!!   OMG!  That sounds like my DAD!!  Now, I love my Dad dearly, but everything in his world has to be perfect!  I teasingly call him Felix Unger.  I seriously believe he has undiagnosed OCD.  He would come to my house and pick apart everything.  You have dust on your lights, gee you missed a spot wiping off the table, and my favorite.....Don't you line up your faucet so it's straight with the sink???   Now he came from a family that tried to make everything on the outside look good because of the tyrancy of his father.

5.  My hubby is usually a gem.  But there was a time also when I felt that he expected too much out of me.  He went through the phase of "I work so hard physically."  Well he does, but I had to explain to him that so much of my work is emotionally exhausting.  Nurturing kids is hard enough.  Nurturing a RAD is...well  YOU know.  So!  I like Markie's idea of documenting your time for a week or so.  I did this and it worked!  I didn't tell him I was doing it, I would just "conveniently" leave out my to-do list and then check each chore off.  (Even I was amazed at how long that list was when I actually wrote it down!)  As far as documenting how your time is monopolized with the kids, you might have to be more creative.  Hm...a notebook lying around with a "diary" type approach?  Of course this leaves the opportunity for him to ask why you are spending time writing in this little book when you could be straightening out the flower pots!!

I like Karleen's list of the different type of husbands he might be.  As usual, great ideas from everyone.  You should be able to pick and choose what works for you with some of these suggestions.  It's tough, I know.  To be perfectly honest, I was waiting for this post.  Not to say I told ya so, but just kind of felt it coming.  New marriage, new baby, RAD you didn't expect.  He got you through tough times before, maybe you need to express to him that you need his help again, to get you through the tough times of new baby and RAD treatment.  Good luck!!!!!

[cherylbnj]

I'm grateful for Markie, who can drop something on the floor and when asked to pick it up, reply "I didn't know I dropped it!!!  I find it easier to apologize for the mess than actually clean it!   (but he takes really great care of me and the kids, so I guess if I have to live with the clutter, I'll survive somehow).

[trying]

There are so many good suggestions here.  I have only a couple of thoughts to add.

I have noticed about my self that there are some things around the house that I never notice, and there are others that drive me crazy.  I can handle dishes out by the sink, but a gritty floor does me in.  Is it possible that dh could tell you one or two simple (simple is an important word) things that would help him feel things were under control.  Which details matter to him, and which ones don't?

That is one question.  But I'm guessing that maybe there is another question that is deeper.  Maybe it isn't really the house that is bothering him as much as wondering where his place is with you.  You obviously love him a lot.  That has been clear since the beginning of your posts.  So I know that isn't an issue.  

What may be an issue is this total upheaval of your lives.  You have done this intensive therapy for a month or so and people can deal with that much change if they think things will go back to normal when it is done.  Now your dh may be beginning to realize that although things are better, it still isn't what he expected.  That is happening for you as well, and probably really came to a head for you when you posted about possibly moving your dd on to another place.  You were expressing that grief for an expectation that hasn't come about.

Things are different now.  You can't show him your affection in the same ways or with the same amount of time you did before dd came to live with you.  Likewise, he has more stress and less opportunity to be supportive, especially since he is back at work.

Now questions arise for both of you about how this new reality effects your relationship.  "Am I still important to you?  How will I know that from the things you do?"  Those are the questions I think I am hearing from both his behavior and from your reaction to it. He is bringing up stuff about how you cook and keep house, but maybe really more deeply asking if the changes mean your feelings for him are different.  You are bringing up his impatience and criticism and also possibly more deeply asking if his feelings for you are different.  My guess is that your feelings are not different for either one of you, but that it is time to explore new ways of supporting each other and showing that in ways each of you can really feel.

For my dh and I, it was easy to say, if we just didn't have this kid we would be fine again.  My dh would especially go there.  But life doesn't hold still even if you only have easy children.  Other things happen that cause the same questions: illness, job changes, new babies, anything at all can cause these conflicts to happen.  It takes work, but they can make your relationship stronger.   As a farm family, we do a little of this readjusting with season changes.  Around June every year we have a fight about how much work there is to do and who is doing their share around here.  Both of us really are doing our share.  The issue is that our circumstances are changing from the winter months and we haven't readjusted yet.  We both are overwhelmed and so we end up blaming the other or picking at each other.  After we recognize it we can move on to find ways to affirm and support each other again.

Maybe you can talk about it together after kids are asleep.  Maybe your own therapist could make suggestions for how the two of you can reaffirm your love for each other in new ways with this new reality.

I hope things get better soon.  I have been so impressed by the how close you and your dh are (as you have written about in your other posts).  

[momof5]

I think the pen out of place near the brief case is not really about the pen/briefcase but about the lack of control he feels in his life. I know cause I can be a bit of a "control" freak and when I get upset about something so insignificant it is really about the larger issue and I'd guess that is what you are both feeling (overwhelmed, not enough time for you etc). So you could kill yourself and have a "martha Stewart" home but I'm sure he'd find that little thing cause it's not really about the "little thing" it's about the big stuff. On the other hand my ds used to occ. complain about my house keeping and we could never work it out so I finally hired someone to come in and do a thorough cleaning once a month. That kept both our sanity. At first he complained we couldn't afford it and then I pointed out our marriage couldn't not afford it. I hear your frustration. I'd also recommend a heart to heart with him about how this makes you feel.

[anne]

(((((((((((((((((((Sparrow))))))))))))))))))))

How are you doing today?  Are things better?  People here have such good ideas and advice!   

In our first few years of marriage I gave this type of behaviour the name, "pick-nicking"!  It became our 'code word' with each other - mostly for him!  Far too many times I've been overwhelmed with the amount of emotional work I'm doing with two RADdishes and trying to keep up being a wife and keeping a house.    Most days it felt like my head would explode and when he came home and mentioned something small e.g., wet clothes in the washer that didn't get transferred to the dryer/line yet - I'd pop    There are some things about my Dh that I've learned to tune out and other things I've learned that if I take care of those nitty-gritty things first e.g., laundry, for some bizzare reason he feels I'm meeting his needs.  I also learned to start thanking him for each little thing he does do around the house.  I know this sounds weird, but I realized that I wasn't even noticing the little things he does e.g., putting toothpaste on my brush for me while he does his, picking up the mail from the box down the street, fixing all the computer problems that I usually cause, etc.  He pick-nicked at me in part because I wasn't seeing what he did do at home in between working.  By thanking him, I appreciated him more, thought of him better, took his pick-nicks less to heart, and in turn, was nicer to be around in general. This had a great fall-out affect as he noticed my appreciation, attentions, and calmer reactions, he started to pick-nick less and to thank me more.  Now, this took a lot of time - 6 mos. and me baking A LOT of things (my stress reliever), but over time it was worth it.  Today, our marriage is rock solid and we appreciate each other more.  But we both had to give up our pre-kiddos expectations, talk more, and take time out for our marriage and ourselves to insure that things continued.  We agreed that the binding of our family was our marriage and when all is said and done, the kiddos eventually leave, but we didn't want to. 

Having said that I have to say that I'm blessed with a MIL who grew up in a show home and doesn't want that for her or her DIL!  But, Dh was used to a 'stay at home' Mom and I am a working Mom...yup, we've had to work out a lot!  Prayers.  Hang in there and talk.  We're here for you.

anne

[DianeM2]

 I know this sounds weird, but I realized that I wasn't even noticing the little things he does e.g., putting toothpaste on my brush for me while he does his,   

Awwww...that is so sweet!   

Yup, sometimes it's those little things that I need to thank my lucky stars for too.  Something like putting toothpaste on your toothbrush is such a tiny thing, but can be such a "big" thing!


 

 There are some things about my Dh that I've learned to tune out and other things I've learned that if I take care of those nitty-gritty things first e.g., laundry, for some bizzare reason he feels I'm meeting his needs.  I also learned to start thanking him for each little thing he does do around the house.   By thanking him, I appreciated him more, thought of him better, took his pick-nicks less to heart, and in turn, was nicer to be around in general. This had a great fall-out affect as he noticed my appreciation, attentions, and calmer reactions, he started to pick-nick less and to thank me more. 

Good advice Anne!  With my hubby, I've learned that he is happy when I make sure his work clothes are clean and that there is bread and milk in the house!!  And thanking the hubbies when they help out I think is very sage advice.  I've had this discussion with friends and we'd decided that even if the help isn't up to our "standards", it is still help and should be appreciated.  The other day, DH wiped up a sticky spot on the floor that was driving me nuts all day and I just couldn't seem to get to it.  Just that small gesture made me so happy and I thanked him.  I told him how it was just a small thing that really made my day! He did give me kind of a kooky look, but I think he caught the drift.

[justine]

(((Sparrow))))   I love the idea someone gave here of asking dh to order, like 1-10, the things he cares about most in his home.   The practical things, i mean.    You could make the list from what he has specifically mention.   Then you could concentrate on the first few most important-to-him ones. 

 I will tell you that for all the years i was primarily a stay at home mom, my dd loved the most, when it came down to having to list them...TWO THINGS....

1)A pleasant wife/mom to greet after work and 2) a decent SUPPER with all of us after a hard day at work.   
 
Third would have been a "picked up" house ( vs a clean house).   As soon as my kids were old enough, we had clean up time before dad came home.   A fast, anti-tornado like trip thru the house to put stuff away.   It was actually fun as we were all running around together like maniacs..... .

He was more than willing to have a one-income family if it meant that i cooked supper.   

With my kids (mostly) grown, i work almost full time now.  I work with 3 young moms who eat cereal and sandwiches at night and even on weekends refuse to cook.   I feel bad for all their struggles. (and their dhs)   Not too bad though, as they have nicer cars than me and shop WAY too much and could probably work part time themselves if they were as happily tight-waddish as me!

You are two amazing people to do all that you are doing for one very blessed little girl.   You will both work it out....

[Kevins Kitchen]

Ok, just a couple of comments and suggestions here for all you awesome wifey's.

First off, read the books "The Proper Care and Feeding Of Husbands" and "Woman Power" by Dr. Laura Schlesinger.

As for the original issues posted by Sparrow, I'd suggest the following.

Sit down with him after the kiddies are in bed and lovingly tell him exactly what you've posted here for us.

You see, it's my contention that us men are really pretty simple.  Not Simple Minded, but Simple.
We want fed, we want a beer, and we want a little undercover honkytonkin with our lovely wifey's.

We think we're supposed to provide for our family, and fix things that are broke around the house.  The problem comes when women think that "If We Love Them, We'll Know What They're Thinking or Wanting."  We love you, but we don't have a "CLUE" what you're thinking.
We WILL move MOUNTAINS for the lady we love, but she has to TELL us which mountain, and where she wants it put.

Justine basically said the same thing.  But from a Womans perspective.

It amazes me that women can go into their OB/Gyns office, usually a male, and tell him about their most intimate issues and think that their hubby, who loves them above all others in this world will understand what they want or need without telling him exactly what that is.

And then too ladies, that part about making sure you and hubby are united together and that you take care of yourselves is of utmost importance in being able to parent your children is VERY VERY important.

And for any of you that are being a bit crabby about "Well, yeah right, Kevins saying take care of hubby, but what about taking care of wifey?"

Well ladies, that undercover honkytonkin is supposed to be fun for BOTH of you. 

IF YOU have FUN, HE has FUN and if HE has FUN, You Have Fun.

C'mon now, it didn't QUIT being FUN did it?

And then too, if you can be intimate with your hubby, why can't you talk to him and tell him what you want or need from him, both in the bedroom and in every other room of the house?

[Geertje]

Right Kevin, I learned it very early from hubby, then still my boy (oeps) gentlemenfriend, just tell me straight what you want, hi, hi I'm sure by now he felt sorry occassionely  :BangHead:that he learned me that, because I put it in practice.
And boy it really works it's sometimes tirering to explain and asked, but indeed man don't know our toughts, and we as woman are brought up to think about these things, there are lot's of difference between men and women.
I like the term simple, we are much more complicated (I still can suprise hubby with my reaction, never a dull moment )
I let him read different articles about us women

[markie]

Thanks Kevin.

I was getting tired of telling Cheryl that

I am just a teenage boy, in a 50 year old's body...


markie...