Trust

[Malina]

I apologize to you all.  I am having trouble figuring this forum out, like where to post things.  I am sorry if I am putting this into the wrong place.

I was reading a thread on trust issues.  Apparently it was old, because when I tried to respond it said I should start a new thread.  Sigh.

I just wanted to say that I think my dd17 views trust in a completely different way than most normal people.  I think to her, trust is equated with vulnerability and it is something for her to take advantage of.  I don't think she views it normally, as something she values and wants to earn.  I think she views my trust as an opportunity to get away with something.

My pastor recently told me that I need to apologize to my daughter for not trusting her.  I don't think she gets it.  I don't see the point of it.  I don't think trust means the same thing to dd17 as it does to pastor and me.  It would hurt me not to be trusted, and it would hurt pastor not to be trusted, but it probably does not hurt dd17 not to be trusted.  She does not like it, but she also does not do what she needs to do to be trusted.

It is not wise to trust someone who is not trustworthy.  It is hard to understand why this has become a character flaw on my part.

My dd is a con artist, and con artists make their livelihood by earning peoples' trust and betraying it.  I don't think we should apologize to a con for not trusting them.  How does that help?

[Jeannie]

From what you've written, I'm thinking your pastor really doesn't "get it".  Or is he taking some different angle (and I'm not following it...)

I don't see the point in trusting someone who is not trustworthy, either.

[Bizzziemom]

In the past (ducking for the other shoe to hit me in the back of the head!) DEAR SON has not been able to  be trusted AT ALL .  NADA, ZILTCH, NO WAY!.

His comment was about respect, trust was part of respect and he would say, "I will show them respect when THEY show me respect first."

I put your daughter in this thought process category.

As for the pastor...he ain't got a clue!

bizzzie

[justine]

I think your pastor is dead wrong and not just because your dd is rad.  I agree with everything you are thinking 2hijas.  I really do think our kids see trust differently. But i also disagree with her (your pastor's) basic premise.   Trust is something earned.  Or at least, it may be something freely given but it can be lost, destroyed.   We can love without trusting.  As you said, since when does NOT TRUSTING an untrustworthy person become a character flaw?.

In proverbs we are warned about trusting a fool or deceitful person.  It doesnt say, "unless its your own kid"...

It sounds like your pastor is trying to help but is also looking at your child's RAD as something you are playing some part in.   The old "two way street" that is usually quite true in normal relationships.    With my dd, she liked to tell people that "my mom and I just dont get along"....as if we had a personality clash!    Your dd is emotionally ill, not a moody teen who is fighting with her moody mom.

Of course, i am NOT saying that we dont need to look at our own reactions to our kids.  Absolutely we do!   I have to work hard at being kind, patient...even if its all an act.

[Truebluemom]

Sounds like your pastor is coming from the premise that your dd is a normal, well-behaved teen.  Would he give the same advice to a parent whose teen has stolen a car or vandalized someone?  Probably not.  If he did, that would be foolish advice.  Your teen may be pulling the wool over his eyes as to how trustworthy she is. 

My opinion:  love is unconditional, trust is earned

[Malina]

Thanks, you all.  I have been so depressed about this all week.

One of the hardest aspects of this whole thing is that no one, but no one, gets it.  Those few who do seem to vanish.

I love my pastor.  She is actually the asst. pastor, but she is very wise (about most things).  She seemed like someone who could understand, but I guess it is so far outside most people's frame of reference that they just cannot.  And, on top of it all, they see the person that DD17 pretends to be, which is basically perfect.  I am sure they all wish she were their daughter. 

Some days I wish she were their daughter too!   

[karleen]

Why would anyone need to appologize to anyone for not trusting them?     Lack of trust is generally due to behaviors of the person not trusted, not behaviors of the one that is not trusting.   

[Malina]

Thanks, everyone.  It is hard being the only sane one in a world of crazy people!  lol

I am so sick of living this way.  After tonight, I think I have to make some kind of change.  I can't keep doing this.

[justine]

Dont blame you in the least.   We sent our dd then 17 to live with her married cousins for 4 months of her senior year.   Gave her a one day notice for both coming and going.   The cousins did it just to help.  I paid for groceries only and had dd give them 25.00 a week.   It brought me 4 mos closer to her graduation and a more wary subdued dd when she returned.  She knew I could do it again!   THINK!  PRAY!   Hope others have some ideas....

[Reine]

Tell your pastor that trust is something that is earned.  You should definately not apologize and
you should no longer confide in your pastor.

[rapunzel44]

BTDT, no T-Shirt though.

Kevin put it quite well, a while ago. (Probably years ago, lol.) He said that usually you give every person you meet a certain amoun t of trust. We usually trust people who we don't know, to a degree. We would not put them in charge of our bank account or leave them alone with our kids or spouse straight away, but we trust that they are decent beings.

Unfortunately, sometimes that amount of trust disappears when people keep acting untrustworthy.

As far as your dd goes, she would probably be a gazillion dollars  overdrawn. So she has to earn your trust back by behaving trustworthily over a looong period of time. 6 months to a years is what I used to tell my dd. Her answer? "It's not worth it then."Which made it clear that it isn't worth anything to her anyway. Just something she wants because it suits at this very moment.

Would the pastor expect you to apologize to someone who had broken into your house and stolen money? I don't think so.
What you can do, is forgive her, but that doesn't mean trusting her. I know I don't trust my dd 19 AT ALL, and I'll be damned if I apologize for it.

Trust has a lot to do with respect. Does your dd respect you? No? No trusting her then.

[justine]

Dee could probably answer this better than I, but it is bewildering that a pastor would not have learned the basic premise of trust vs love.   I mean, pastors are supposed to come equipped thru training in the basic relationship issues between people, arent they?   Its like he/she found out that your husband had 5 mistresses over a 10 year period and tells you that the problem is your lack of trust in him.  And that you should APOLOGIZE for not trusting him.  Huh?   I just dont get it and think you should roll your eyes, shrug and walk away.  crazy....