Trauma Headquarters and ADSG

Does anyone have any quick resources for giref and loss stages. I recognize I am in anger right now, but would like to know what else is down the road.
NW

NWMom - I googled grief stages and found several good resources.  Wikipedia had a good write up.  The main thing I remember is it can be rather back and forth, in and out and not the same for everyone. 

Those stages tend to go back and forth and sometimes all together :( it takes time.
It feels like a rollercoaster at times.
Good luck and wisdom :wave:

NWMom,

here is a great article that includes the stages.

blessings

We've all experienced grief. We've all felt those intense rolling waves of emotion. But, do we all experience the same feelings each time we lose a loved one?
What Are The Stages of Grief?
Many people have tried to explain what grief is; some have even identified certain stages of grief.

Probably the most well-known of these might be from Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' book, "On Death and Dying." In it, she identified five stages that a dying patient experiences when informed of their terminal prognosis.

The stages Kubler-Ross identified are:

Denial (this isn't happening to me!)

Anger (why is this happening to me?)

Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)

Depression (I don't care anymore)

Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)
Many people believe that these stages of grief are also experienced by others when they have lost a loved one.

Personally, I think of these definitions as emotional behaviors rather than stages, per se. I believe we may certainly experience some of these behaviors. But, I believe just as strongly, that there is no script for grief; that we cannot expect to feel any of our emotions in a particular set pattern. I do agree that acceptance is probably the last emotion felt, and in some instances it may be the only one.

A lesser known definition of the stages of grief is described by Dr. Roberta Temes in the book, "Living With An Empty Chair - a guide through grief." Temes describes three particular types of behavior exhibited by those suffering from grief and loss. They are:

Numbness (mechanical functioning and social insulation)

Disorganization (intensely painful feelings of loss)

Reorganization (re-entry into a more 'normal' social life.)
I am better able to relate to this definition as it seems to more accurately reflect the types of behavior I have experienced and observed. Within these types of behavior might well be most of the feelings described in Kubler-Ross' writings as well.

Which List Is Right?
In my opinion, both of these lists, and many others that we've all seen, are all descriptive of some of the emotions and functions we go through when we lose a loved one.

I believe that grief, like so many other things in our complex lives, can't be reduced to a neat list with absolute definitions, timelines, strategies, goals, and completion dates. Would that it were so easy

Grief is as individual as those of us who feel it, and as varied as the circumstances of death which occur.

Will I Go Through Every Stage?
If a 98-year old grandfather died in his sleep I think there would be different stages of grief and loss experienced than if a two-year old child were run over by a car and killed.

If a person has had a long life, death is somewhat expected as the natural scheme of things. There will be emotions of grief and loss but they might be more for what we will miss.

If a young life is cut short unexpectedly, there may well be feelings of denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and in some cases acceptance.

Just as we have different emotional reactions to anything that happens in our lives, so too, will we experience grief and loss in different ways. I think the important thing to remember is that there is a wide range of emotions that may be experienced; to expect to feel some of them and to know that we cannot completely control the process.

When Will I Be Through Grieving?
Grieving used to be much more ritualistic than it is today. In generations past there were set periods of time when certain customs must be observed:

Widows wore all black clothing for one year and drab colors forever after.

Mourners could not attend social gatherings for months.

Laughter and gaiety were discouraged for weeks or months.
Today we are unfettered by these restrictions and might even be confused about when we should be done grieving.

Actually, we'll probably never be done.

We'll never forget the person we grieve for. Our feelings may be tempered more with good memories than sadness as time passes, but that isn't to say that waves of raw emotion won't overcome us way after we thing we should be done.

I think the trick here is to understand that the feelings will occur, try to keep them in perspective, try to understand why you feel a certain way, and if there are any unresolved issues that cause particular emotional pain, forgive yourself and others and if necessary talk with someone about it.

There is no completion date to grieving...let your emotions flow through the stages of grief.

oops, forgot the source link.

http://www.cancersurvivors.org/Coping/end%20term/stages.htm (http://www.cancersurvivors.org/Coping/end%20term/stages.htm)

http://www.businessballs.com/elisabeth_kubler_ross_five_stages_of_grief.htm (http://www.businessballs.com/elisabeth_kubler_ross_five_stages_of_grief.htm)

another good link.

blessings

thanks for posting the lists it helped.
NW

I much prefer the term "chronic Sorrow" a term coined many years ago by Simon Olshansky who studied parents of children with down syndrome and then later others have used the term (just google chronic sorrow) to help understand the grief parents feel when dealing with any chronic disability. The idea here is that it never really goes away and that is our normal. That certain life events that our children may not celebrate that "normals" do re trigger that chronic sorrow. I believe that to be the case and certainly see it on this board when our kids don't get to celebrate graduations or don't allow us as parents to share the joy. Or when our kids get excluded or their behavior is such that we can't experience the usual parenting joys. The idea behind this is that it is not a linear progression through stages of grief but more up and down throughout the life span.

I can so relate to that Momof5.   For those of us with adult or barely adult unhealed rads, it is the loss of a child who is alive and "well."   It is grieving a death when there is no "body" to put to rest.   Good days and bad.  Ups and downs.   But yes, chronic is the sorrow....

momof5,

chronic sorrow.

that captures it exactly.

thank you so much.

blessings

Hi momof5;
   I like this term, it fits better than most of the others we've been using for this long term aspect of parenting.  There are still some of the other effects such as PTSD from major events and grief over the loss of our initial dreams, but this helps a lot with the later years as we continue to fight some of the same and some new battles over and over and over.

   Would you please add this with a reference link to the Multiple Diagnosis section?

Chronic sorrow - great term.  Makes a lot of sense.

"Chronic Sorrow"- a definite keeper.

Do feel that , from time to time- especially on Birthdays, adoption Day, Holidays- small triggers. Seeing a baseball or football game- certain smells- walking into child's room , seeing a physical resemblance to our almost man child, yes, grieving for the "if only" or the missed oppurtunities they have missed. I do remember that they don't feel much of anything on "special days" maybe that is due to when their abuse happened or there was too much love "in the air"?

For whatever reason, our son never cared. It helps us to grieve less knowing 100% that he just doesn't view those days as important. The days that are important to him are the ones he percieves as important to him ONLY.

O.K.- I will stop now! :love7:

Chronic sorrow sounds like an apt description.  It is what I am feeling today.  I used to have a happy home, but now there is only chronic sorrow.  There is very little laughter but lots of tears.  There is hardly any joy.  Somedays I feel as though we are living in Mudville.   DD had a fit because I asked her to carry 2 Hershey pies from Burger King into the house.  She had already eaten hers.  Sometimes I feel like I don't care if I never buy her another special treat when we are out.  She can wait until she gets home, or she can start packing herself a peanut butter sandwich.  Geesh . . . . 

Thanks for letting me vent.

vent away.

share your burdens.

drop them for a while.  they will be there to pick up on your way out.

we are here for you.

so that there is one less walking shell (my current description of me) on the road.

chronic sorrow.

so much loss.

so hard to find hope.

so glad you trust us/me with your sorrows/frustrations.

be strengthened.

blessings

Thank you blessings!  Have an blessed day!   :nike:

momof3,

I am having a blessed day.

And you are very welcome.

blessings

Chronic sorrow:  oh,  perfect description. 

I'm the mom of two RADult kids who are now out of communication, one for five years and one for a year or so.  I'm also the mom of the RADult dd's first child.  So she hasn't communicated with her own dd for a year. 

I have two bio kids who act like my kids:  they are in their forties.  So I know how adult kids are "supposed" to be. 

I continue to grieve the RADult children.  They came at 2 and 4 and were MY children.  But I wasn't THEIR mom.  I will never be their mom. 

My DH died five years ago, so I know about grieving.  But grieving is different if the person who died left the earth unwillingly.  My RADult kids left my family willingly.  They dont care if they ever see me again.  In fact, they'd rather not, I believe.  Chronic sorrow!!!  Although I must admit I'm trying very hard just to forget I ever knew them.  It makes life easier.  Sadlyl, it's impossible. 

Very well said, Maeve.

Do you have any relationship with the other grandchildren of your RADults?  I would like to have an idea of how the future is going to look.

Bijou

It's so unnatural, it goes against everything I believe in, the way they tread us, like we are air, nonexcisting :BangHead:but even so we get the blame :angry4: stupid, idioot, to crazy for words >:D
We haven't seen ds for 8 months and he is every day on my mind, but still peeping in on my Hyves account, but not speaking to me, his girlfriend in the same, she asked again if (on e-mail) if she could get acces again on Hyves, but when I asked her why and why she wouldn't answer my honest questions( how it was wirh her feet, she was appearently wounded) I wrote her that thats not the way to tread people and that we welcomed her in our house, went out with her and ds to a centreparc, we helped her with moving, but I didn't got a answer and that that was hurting:angry9: :angryfire: :BangHead: unpolite, rude etc.etc.
I wish their was a forgetfulness pil, I would take it, it feels like I wasted my time, effort, health, and I lost my trust in people.
Geertje :wave:

Geertje - I feel your pain and frustration.  Each new insult is such a fresh wound.  So sorry for your pain! 

I have been noticing lately that I seem so much more negative than I used to be.  I'm not sure if it's a natural consequence of dealing with the ongoing grief of RAD or the consequence of choosing to allow myself to give in to that grief.  It's probably a blend of both.  Somehow RAD should not define me, but my experience of dealing with RAD needs to be defined by my understanding of who I am in Christ.  I'm still working on it.

Maeve, you did what you could for those RADults when they were little ones.  It came time for them to leave the nest, and they left.  But you gave their wings strength to fly.  They grew into adults because of you.   If they refuse to acknowlege that, it is to their loss.  Maybe one morning they will wake up and see you for who you really are - a kind, caring person who gave them your best.  You did not grow weary in well doing.

Perhaps it would help to focus on the children who do know how to act and respond to you in love.  Bask in the joy of their love and leave the rest to God who sees everything.  With Him, no good deed goes unnoticed.


 Galatians 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. (KJV)

I an reading this book on the brain - The Brain That Changes Itself - most interesting.

In it, it says that in order to grieve properly we have to go through memories and sort of "undo "them, one by one, letting go.

I feel this is something I need to do. I am so much angrier at dd since she left, and I am obviously not quite done. So I have to "revisit" and unlearn my synapses firing together in order to let go and look at her just as another person and not feel the hurt every time I think of her, see her, talk to her, or she is mentioned.

Interesting thoughts, Rapunzel.  Let us know what you think of the book when you finish, eh?  With her gone, you are "free" to feel the anger you had to suppress often when she lived with you.   Glad to hear you are working thru your hurts.  I hope you feel the pain ease as time passes...

To you and Geertje, i just want you to know, again and again and again.....you are/were a GOOD mom!  (((rapunzel and geertje))))

Chronic Sorrow-  That's the feeling I've had for years!

Just came back from searching it out and this is what I found.

Chronic Sorrow is a term coined by sociologist Simon Olshanshy to describe the long-term reaction of parents who have a child with a disability. This pervasive reaction is often not recognized or understood by those around the parents--professionals, family and friends. These feelings of chronic sorrow are normal and to be expected and accepted, given the life-long implications for the family and child. 

Many factors can affect the intensity and exhibition of chronic sorrow: the parent's personalities, the severity of the disability, the nature of the disability and the adequacy of support and services provided. 

Chronic sorrow does not mean that the parents don't love or feel pride in their child. These feelings, and many other feelings, exist alongside the sadness. It is as if many threads are woven side by side, bright and dark, in the fabric of the parent's lives. They co-exist; they do not blend into one color, or feeling.   

Because ours is such a "can do" society, there is pressure on parents to quickly put their feelings of sadness away or deny them. Parents are told to "think positively" and "to get on with your lives." They are told that God has "selected" them to receive this special child because they are such strong people. 
These kinds of comments, while well meant, deny the validity or parental long-term grieving. The discomfort of observing pain in those we care about can be part of the reason for such comments from others. 

Grieving, however, is a process that takes time, often years. It's a prickly bush that one must go through, not jump over. However, there are ways to support the process of grieving. Most parents frond support in a community of people who understand because they, too have lived the experience. It is lonely to be the only family on the block with a child with a disability. Being part of a support group or organization helps to combat feelings of isolation. 

Engaging in personal activities that do not center on the family member with a disability can help increase feelings of competency and self-worth. Counseling, especially at times of significant stressful milestones, can be useful. 

Chronic sorrow becomes a permanent part of the personality structure of most parents who have a child with a disability. It's a normal response. Its thread narrows and widens depending on life situations; most often it is accepted with courage. And, although permanent, it is not the dominant force in interactions with our children.   

The dominant forces are love and feelings of connectedness to them. 

(Personally- I would like to add that this last line is probably more for kids who attach normally)

Since these were long, I wanted to post them separately.

Chronic Sorrow- A Living Loss
by:  Susan Roos

page 154
...
Secondary stress episodes refer to periods when the appraised stress is not as inherently challenging to daily routine and the future (cumulative stress, constancy of reality demands, fatigue, lack of support, emotional reactions to triggers such as developmental milestones which are not achieved when expected, and so on).
   Symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder can be observed in some parents of children who are severely incapacitated by autism and also in foster and adoptive parents of children who have attachment disorders caused by trauma, abuse, and severe neglect in infancy.  Without any warning or preparation many foster and adoptive parents of attachment disordered children have found themselves in what has been called a war zone.  The discrepancy between parental hopes and expectations and the reality of a child who believes the new parents are the enemy who will cause him unbearable pain can be devastating.  Having had no basic training for helping their children or themselves, parents can feel abandoned, alienated, deceived, confused, demoralized, and inept.  Adoption Quest (2000, online) indicates that parents of attachment disordered children cannot avoid being adversely affected and that their ongoing stress can threaten their psychological and physical health.
   For these parents the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder include (a) flashbacks and intrusive thoughts and images, (b) feelings of detachment or estrangement from others, (c) restricted range of affect, and (d) increased arousal, such as difficulty sleeping, irritability, angry

page 155 and on could not be found online, but I may just have to go find it at the bookstore!!

This is just so helpful, V.   I am copying parts of both to include in the letter to my dd25 with Rad.  Thank you so much.   J

Thanks V

As I read, I kept thinking of a characterisation I heard at a Nancy Thomas seminar.  It was being passed around between parents and therapists, rather than directly from Nancy.

Racoon Eyes --

Parents of these children are often frustrated, overloaded and unable to relax and sleep, when things get bad they develop dark spots under the eyes and when they get really bad, the dark spots circle all the way around the eyes and give a racoon like mask.

This is especially strong when I read:
Secondary stress episodes refer to periods when the appraised stress is not as inherently challenging to daily routine and the future (cumulative stress, constancy of reality demands, fatigue, lack of support, emotional reactions to triggers such as developmental milestones which are not achieved when expected, and so on).

Read the parenthesized part then consider that the sentence is about when it "not as bad".  Not many people can absorb and understand this statement, but the amazing people here can.

Racoon eyes - I've been working to get rid of those....  I do think on the upside, if you can use concealer under the eyes, the upper lid looks like eyeshadow.  Saves time and money!  :sunny: